Nora Needs a New Dad

Nora's dad died in 2014 from pretty much all of the cancers, leaving her mom Margaret without her life partner of almost 50 years ... and leaving Nora without a dad. Does a 40-year-old married woman with four children of her own need a father figure in her life? Nora thinks so! But what does Margaret have to say about dating as a widow in your 70s? 

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Transcripts may not appear in their final version and are subject to change.

Margaret: … just decomposes in a little plate. And then I draw it in ink and I draw it in pencil. And I might just for fun, draw it in colored pencils, or then draw it and then paint little watercolor washes over it. You know, sometimes I knit. I rarely watch TV, mainly because I just don't know what to watch. And sometimes it'll take 45 minutes to select something to watch, and then it's time to go to bed. So anyway, sometimes I will cook something …

That’s my mother, Margaret. Margaret is sitting in her sunny dining room on a cold January morning while our producer Marcel Malekebu sets up the recording equipment. I’m in my office in Phoenix, Arizona, in my pajamas, wondering when she’ll notice that I am on her computer screen.

Margaret: How are we doing here? Oh, I can see Nora now. Look at her. She's adjusting her microphone. She's a vision in pink. Look at that. Look at that. Nora, my pinkish hair has been kind of a hit with people.

Nora: It looks great!

Margaret: I just have to rejuvenate it a little bit. Isn't the sound of your voice, doesn't it surprise you? You think, “I don't sound like that.”

We’re here because for Valentine’s Day, I had an idea for an episode. 

Nora: Okay, Marcel, here’s my idea: I want to find my mom a boyfriend. 

Marcel: Okay…

Nora: And I’m gonna call the episode … “Nora Needs a New Dad.”

Marcel: I don’t know if your mom’s boyfriend at this age would be your dad, though. I don’t think you can have a new dad at your age, Nora. You just … you had one. He’s no longer with us, okay? [laughs]

Nora: [laughs] I’m sorry, are you trying to tell me that at age 40, I can’t have a new father in my life?

Marcel: I think 40 is the cutoff for a new stepparent. It’s just a complete technicality, it’s not even a stepparent anymore. It’s just your mom’s boyfriend.

Nora: So if I would've done this five years ago, I could've had a dad.

Marcel: Yeah, maybe like a cool dad, almost like an older brother dad. Like she’d have to date a dude that was like 15 years her junior.

Nora: Noooooo. [laughs]

Marcel: [laughs] And then he’d be like a cool older brother that you call “dad,” but it’s like, “dad” with a wink.

Nora: No, I want a man my dead dad’s age – the age my dad could be – to … I don't know. I don’t even remember what dads do. I just know I want one. [laughs]

Marcel: You want a man of wisdom.

Nora: Yes! So I asked my mom -- I texted her -- if she was open to this idea, and she said…she had to think about it. A few days later, she said “what will this entail,” and I replied and said I don’t know. Because, as you could possibly surmise from my conversation with Marcel, I don’t know. My mom also warned me, she had limited availability. She had lots of plans and the only date that would work for her was 8:30 a.m. her time on a Monday morning. 

Nora: “No, no no. I don't have a– I don't sound like an eighth grade boy. No, no, I like that, I have a great voice.” But every time I hear my voice, I'm like, “Who's that, that boy teetering into puberty?”

Margaret: [laughs]

Nora: Just about ready to *pew* right in there.

Margaret: At least you won't need hormones, Nora.

Nora: I won't. I mean, maybe I will. Who knows? [Margaret: Who knows?] Who knows? Nobody knows how hormones work. Nobody even knows what hormones are.

Margaret: Well, my high school biology teacher did. She taught us all about it.

Nora: I'm sure mine did, too. I had a great– I had a great biology teacher. Bio Bob.

Margaret: Bio Bob. Oh, I bet he really loved going into the biology of women.

Nora: So one of the interesting things about taking biology with Bio Bob was that he had a like, little box that anyone could put questions in. 

Margaret: Hmm.

Nora: Like we did, like, you know, reproductive biology in 10th grade. And also, you could raise your hand and ask anything, and Cara raises her hand…

Margaret: Oh, no.

Nora: Loud and proud, and she does, “Do boys ejaculate every time they have an erection?” And he goes, “Oh, my. Oh, my. I hope not, that would be quite a mess.” [laughs] “Oh my. Oh my.”

Margaret: Oh, all right, let's, let's change the subject. All right, so what are we doing today, Nora? What are we doing? 

Nora: Well, so far we are talking about my own sex education in the Catholic school system, where more than one of my classmates thought that getting a boner meant that a bone slipped down into your penis to make it hard. But is this why we’re here today? Maybe!

Marcel: Wait a minute. A bone slipping down into your penis is crazy. I don’t even know functionally how that works.

Nora: More than one person in my high school submitted this question. They just thought a bone was just in your pelvis, a loose bone … [laughs]

Marcel: [laughs] That’s funny. I used to think that the vagina was just on the front of a woman’s body, and it was like a hole you just inserted like a chip card into. I was devastated when I realized you had to do the up and under, the tuck under … because I was like, “Yo, where’s your shit at?” the first time I looked at a girl. I was like “yo, where the fuck is your …” I’m like, what’s wrong with this chick, man? I was shook. I was shook.

Nora: You thought it was like, right below the belly button. [laughs]

Marcel: Yeah I thought it was like, I dunno, four inches below the belly button. And I didn't realize it was a slit, for one. [Nora laughs.] I thought it was a hole. I thought it was just literally like a hole on the front, and I’m like, “So where’s this shit supposed to go?” [Nora laughs.] So I can understand this confusion. 

Nora: But during the interview, by the way, Marcel can’t hear any of this. [laughs]

Margaret: Marcel is very interested in this discussion. He can't hear what we're talking about. Thank goodness, okay.

Nora: Thank goodness, okay? Thank goodness. He'll hear it all when he edits this. But I want to ask you one of my favorite stories that you’d tell me when I was little, which is, how did you meet my dad?

Margaret: How did I meet Steve? Well, it's … it’s kind of an interesting story, because I heard about Steve long before I actually met him. And the first time I heard about him was: I was up at the cabin and one of my friends, Vicky Ryan, was there, and we were walking along the little road to the cabin, and she was telling me about a letter that she got from Steve. And actually she had it with her. And there was a picture of Steve holding this little puppy, and he had his whatever those little camouflage shorts on and no shirt, very tan. And she read the letter and they had to put the puppy down because it had distemper or something like that. And I think they, obviously they must have met in high school and there were a lot of DeLaSalle guys that hung out with Regina girls. So that's when I heard about him. And then when I was at the U with Russ Belk, and Ron McCoy, and Michael Johnson, Jerry Bovair, and a lot of other people sitting down in Coffman having coffee. They were all talking about how great it was going to be when Macker got home. And so I heard about him. They’d talk about him like he was some kind of legend. And maybe, you know, there were a lot of shenanigans in high school that would probably lead to that sort of comment. And then I think it was in the summer. There was some kind of party, because he came home from Vietnam, and Dave Cordado and some other DeLaSalle guys had a band. And they rented Moline Hall, which was a union hall for Minneapolis-Moline. And it was located where the Target on Hiawatha and Lake Street is. That's where the Moline Factory used to be, and the union hall. So they rented it, and they had a big party, and everyone was invited. So it was pretty crazy. And so I went. And my first sight of him was pretty funny. He had gone shopping with Russ Belk in downtown Minneapolis, and he said, “Belk, what's everybody wearing these days?” So they went down to the Rising Sun, which was kind of a head shop. I'm sure you know what a head shop is, Nora. 

Nora: I didn't know until I think I was in my mid-twenties and you explained it to me.

Margaret: So they went down there. It was down on LaSalle, kind of downtown, and they went in and Belk said, of course, bell bottoms. So Belk said, “You don't need to try these on, because all you have to do is pick the jeans up by the waistband. And if, you know, when they're flat and if you can put it around your neck and they meet in the back, they'll fit you.” So he bought a pair of brown bell bottoms, and he didn't try them on. And they were fine around the waist, but they came to like the middle of his calf. So they were, they were, like, capri bell bottoms. And combat boots or whatever footwear.

Nora: I think they call that a kick flare now.

Margaret: A kick flare. Fashion forward from the beginning. That was Steve. So yeah, it was just a drunken brawl, which was of course loads of fun.

There was my dad: drunk and wearing flared capri pants, tanned and traumatized from his time in Vietnam. And there was my mom – young and beautiful and ready to party.

Margaret: And then I invited everyone to come over to 3733 Pillsbury Avenue South the following night, and the party continued, because it was a weekend, and my mom and everyone else was up at the cabin, and my dad was dutifully bringing a load of groceries up, so … plugged in the Christmas lights, everybody knew where it was. And yeah, that was quite a summer. It just was nonstop action. [chuckles]

Nora: How old were you?

Margaret: I think I was 19. I think I was 19. Somewhere around that age. 1969. So, yeah, just … just before I turned 20, I think.

Nora: So when did you start dating Dad?

Margaret: We never really called it dating back then. I don't know. That summer. We spent a lot of time together. We went to a drive-in one night with Gerry Bobair and two other Regina pals and they didn't want to pay. You didn't pay by the car, or there was some limit or something. So two of us had to get in the trunk of the car before we drove into the drive-in movie. I just remember that. Anyway, so I guess you– would you call that a date? I don't know. But he did show up.

Nora: No, I would not call that a date. I would not call that. I would call that a red flag. [laughs]

Margaret: [laughs] Red flags had not really been invented back then, but now I do remember that he did show up at the house. He did come to the door, and I think it might have been like Belk and some other whatever in the car. And when he showed up at our house and my parents were there, he had those camouflage shorts on, no shirt and a pair of tennis shoes. And my parents actually let me walk out of the house. And I would say that was fairly generous. Some would say unresponsible parenting. Very trusting.

Nora: So again, another red flag. [both laugh] Another red flag. He shows up shirtless to your parent’s house wearing free shorts. Free shorts he got in Vietnam!

Margaret: Well, he had just been in the jungle for 13 months. So, you know, you can't blame him. So, yeah, he's fine. No, no, look, look. It all turned out fine, didn't it, Nora? It all turned out fine.

Nora: Yes! Yes, it all – it did all turn out fine. Did all turn out fine. I would say, like for all these red flags and the many more that were to come, like he turned into what? I mean, how would you describe him? Is that, was he a good husband?

Margaret: Mostly. Mostly a good husband. Mostly a good husband. He was loyal to a fault. Not to a fault. Loyalty, I think, is probably one of the most important aspects. I can't think of the right word. That's what happens when you get old. You know the word you want to use and you can't find it. He was extremely loyal. He had … a very strong moral compass. And I liked that. Because I was just kind of free floating at that age. Yeah and he was very responsible. Like, he worked a lot of really crappy jobs after he graduated from the U. I mean, three jobs that– he was not a businessman. He got jobs in business. I know he hated every minute of it, but he was determined to support the family because, I mean, I freelanced a little bit during that time, but yeah, he was a good husband.

Nora: A day after this conversation, my mom texted me concerned she hadn’t said enough good things about my father. 

Margaret: Steve and I had a lot of very different interests. We didn't spend all of our time together, but … how do you experience or build a relationship with somebody new after you've been in this long-term relationship with somebody where you know eachother so, so well that you know what works, what doesn't work, and then, you know, you don't have you don't have enough time left to have like a long-term relationship with somebody. Maybe that's not the right way to put it. But I don't know. I don't know how I would build a new relationship with somebody, because I was so used to my relationship with Steve, and it was what I knew, and I knew what to expect. And we had our … we had our little routines. We had our fun together. We had our life together. And it worked for us. And that took a while to figure out. It probably took at least a good ten years to really settle into marriage and a life together. 

Nora: My dad died in 2014, just six weeks before my copycat husband did the same thing. So my mom and I were both widows. I’d been with Aaron for four years. She’d been with my dad for over 40. I was 31. My mom was I think 63. It’s been over eight years at this point. I’m remarried. My mom is not. 

Nora: My mom has spent the past few years living her life. Really well. She has maxed out her visas in Italy and Ireland, traveling and visiting friends and making new friends. She’s taken up watercolor -- as you heard at the top of the episode. She sold the house she lived in with my dad. She lived out of a suitcase for a while and finally got this little condo. She has her own routines. She goes to a gym where she does deadlifts and pull-ups. She’s run half marathons. She sends elaborate birthday cards to her many grandchildren. She takes them on lengthy road trips where they just disappear and we have no idea where they are or where they’re going. In other words, I think my mom is the best.

Marcel: Yeah, your mom is dope. We actually connected on talking about vinyl records and jazz and stuff. And after being at her apartment and seeing her bird feeding situation, I kind of want to get myself a little bird feeder.

Nora: Oh yeah she told me about that. She said you were about to get into birds. And if I share your address with her, with your permission, she is going to send you a bird feeder.

Marcel: Let’s do it.

Nora: So how is dating different… in your sixties and now seventies. I mean, have you dated at all since Dad died?

Margaret: How would you define a date?

Nora: I mean, have you … have you gone out with anyone?

Margaret: I have ... I guess you'd call it a date? Um …

Nora: Did he have a shirt on when he picked you up? [laughs]

Margaret: Yeah [laughs]. He was well-dressed. He’s a friend of one of my former ... 

Nora: Did you have to hide in a trunk? [laughs]

Margaret: [laughs] No, but that would have been pretty exciting.

Nora: We’ll be right back.

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Nora: We’re back … and we’re talking to my mother about dating in your 60s – or her 70s, which is where she is now.

Margaret: A friend of mine thought I should air quotes “date” a friend of hers, who was a widower. And she… finagled or whatever. We all met for coffee and I don't think he knew what was happening. But it was fine. It was fine. We all three of us chatted, and then like three months later, we drove to Northfield and had lunch and came back and drove past the Buddhist temple somewhere that he knew about. Then maybe a couple of months later we went to a movie. But, you know, you know, what Bruce Springsteen says, you know, you've quoted that before, “Can't start a fire without a spark.” So, you know, he was nice. He was a nice guy. But, you know, I don't know. I just wasn't really ready to have a boyfriend and nothing– it just never really went anywhere. He didn't drive after dark, either, which is really a hindrance to having any sort of relationship once you reach, I would say, late sixties, early seventies. I don't like to drive in the dark. I'm endangering other people's lives, actually, so … [laughs]

Nora: Well, I love that, I love, I love that you know it. I love that you're not going to do it. You know?

Margaret: I do it sometimes when I know– when I'm familiar with the route, you know, and I know where I'm going, but otherwise I don't. So yeah, it's … it's a challenge, the whole dating thing. Well, summer. Summer is the time for old people to get together, because you have a lot more daylight to experiment with. [laughs]

Nora: You have a lot more daylight. There's no ice on the road.

Nora: Okay, so Marcel, my mom did go out with this guy, apparently a few times. Apparently, more than a few times. And APPARENTLY! Without me even knowing.

Marcel: First off, Nora, your mom does not need to explain to you who she’s dating. Okay? Your mother is a grown woman with grown things going on in her condo.

Nora: That’s true. But I am nosy. 

Margaret: Nora, do you remember when Q was born?

Nora: Yeah, I do. [laughs]

Nora: Marcel, you might know this: Q is my youngest child. So I do remember when he was born. I was there.

Marcel: Well I would hope so, unlike Madge forgetting that your birthday is December 28th.

Nora: Yeah, my mom can’t remember my birthday, but I do remember giving birth.

Margaret: Alright. So when you texted me or called me or someone said that you were on your way to the hospital, this gentleman X, we were at the Northrop King Building at Open Studios. I'm like, “Dude, I got to go. I got to go. There's something really important going on here.” So, that was a long time ago. So intermittently, over the ensuing years,  we would get together with other people or, you know, it wasn't like … it wasn't like a dating situation. He's very into music. He knows a lot, a lot, a lot about music. He worked in the advertising biz. God, I hope he never listens to this, because that would be horrible. [laughs] I don't think he would, but I would ... yeah, anyway. So … he would call me sometimes, or we’d talk about music, we’d talk on the phone. We didn't see each other very often – at lunch, maybe with a couple of other friends. It was just a very casual sort of thing, you know? So I was walking at Wood Lake, which is a park close to where I live, and ... I had not indulged in any mind-altering substances during this walk. But as I was walking, you know how you're prone to thinking about things? And I thought, “God, I wonder if X would want to just make out with me. You know, just, just that's all. Just like, make out. That's, you know, might be fun.” So interestingly, he called me that night or whatever. He called me shortly thereafter, and I was a little stoned. Okay, I'll admit that, Nora. Please don't tell your siblings. So we were chatting. I had sent him a picture of my new receiver, which I was very excited to get, because I wanted to be able to play records and listen to good music. And I was chatting and I said, “God, X, it's really wonderful that you called because, you know, I was just thinking about you as I was walking the other day and I thought, ‘I wonder if X would want to make out with me?’” And there was silence on the other end of the line. And then the conversation resumed. And we talked about a lot of things, which I really don't want to go into now. Anyway, so that was that. And it was a free-floating conversation. So about a week after that … I didn't hear from him.

Nora: I am biased here. And I am trying to be kind. But if my mother asks you if you want to make out and you’ve been flirting with her for literally six years at this point? The answer better be yes! The answer better not be awkward silence! The answer is yes. You are gonna go over to her little apartment and you make out with her!

Marcel: I mean listen, man. Madge is a strong woman. Solid woman. It could be intimidating. She’s like hey i’m not here to play games and this guy is shook. Just the sheer aura is throwing off his entire chemical balance

Nora: I think also it’s throwing him off, but also I’ve been in this situation. [laughs] I have shot my shot, as they say. And it has fallen flat, like a deflated basketball. I have! I don’t want that for my mom! I do not want that for my mom!

Marcel: So you think he’s just not interested? Or what do you think is going on with this guy?

Nora: I don’t know.

Margaret: I was catsitting for your brother, and I was listening to 88.5. It was a Friday night, because that's blues night. You know, you can't miss that Friday night. So I asked him if he would like to come over for dinner on Monday, blah, blah. It was … you know, he was very, always very flirtatious in our phone conversations. So, I mean … I might have been a little flirtatious, but I sent it off. And like an hour and a half later, he called, and I was getting ready to go to bed because the following morning at 7:00, I had to pick up my friend. We were going to a watercolor workshop. Had to go to bed, had to get up early. So I answer the phone and there's no hello or anything. It's this kind of mad voice that says, “Is this about sex?” [Nora laughs.] And I couldn't help it: I laughed so hard. I just laughed so hard. [Nora laughs.] I just said, “I invited you over for dinner. I didn't ask– I didn't ask you to start a family with me.” You know? 

Nora: What a fucking weenie! God!

Margaret: He just went on about … oh! Because he had told me maybe a year prior to this, he was seeing someone that he went to grade school with or something. Some woman who had been married and her first husband was a jerk and then blah, blah. And then she got married again to a really nice guy and he died and she’s had such a hard life. And I said, “That's wonderful. But, you know, we've all had a hard life.” [laughs] Anyway, whatever. But I, you know, I knew he had this sort of lady friend … 

Nora: He was like, “I have to date this other woman cuz her life sucks worse, sorry!”

Margaret: I know! He’s like, “She invited me to her birthday party when we were in fifth grade.” No lie. Oh, god. Please. [laughs]

Nora: Why would I tell somebody that you were afraid to have dinner with me because you thought I was going to try to have sex with you? Like, even though, like, I mean, had  you even, like, had you hooked up at all? Like, had you made out? Anything?

Margaret: Never. Never. Well, maybe when he was leaving, after … I came home because Q was being born. I gave him a hug. I kissed him on the cheek. That was that. Boom, done.

Nora: You did have a little pep in your step when you arrived at the hospital, I will say. I don't know if it was about the baby.

Margaret: Yeah, it was definitely not about [laughs]. But anyway, so that's the extent of that. [Nora: Oh, Mom. I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry.] Anyway. It's all right. It's all right, you know? It’s a good story, Nora. It's a good story. And it never gets old. Never gets old.

Nora: “Is this about sex? You whore!”

Margaret: “I gotta go! I gotta go. This conversation is over. I have to pick someone up at seven in the morning. Goodbye!”

Nora: “Listen here, you slut!”

Marcel: “Listen here, you slut” is so, so crazy, yo. [laughs]

Nora: Okay so, it is a good story. It is a good story. It’s a great story, Mom. We’ll be right back.

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Nora: We’re back, and I know so far you’ve heard about my parents’ marriage, and you’ve heard about my mom’s dating history as a widow, but we have not yet gotten to what I thought the point of this episode would be. 

Nora: So the point of this, that I don't know if I explain this to you, but like … obviously, I miss Dad, you know? You miss Dad. Everybody misses Dad.

Margaret: Terribly! I do. At the most inopportune times. [Nora: Yeah.] You know, just get sad.

Nora: Yeah. And you know what I, like, I've always loved just being around parents, just in general, you know? But I miss, like, just having, like, a dad-ish presence around in our family. [Margaret: Mmhmm]. I wanted to call this episode “Nora Needs A New Dad.” And Marcel said, and I quote, “That's fucking crazy.”

Margaret: Marcel might be right on that [laughs]. Also, I think the term “boyfriend” is so weird when you're 60 or 70. My man, my man friend. I don't need a boy. I need a man, you know?

Nora: A man who can drive at night! [Margaret: a man who can drive at night.] All right, a man who, like, okay, so the point is, I just like … I like a fatherly presence. So, yes, this is about me. I think Austin needs a fatherly presence. I think … I think Meghan could benefit from it. I think everyone could benefit, also you, from having a fatherly presence around us. We are lost! [laughs]

Margaret: A father figure. I think that's the term you’re looking for, as they say.

Nora: A father figure! And I want you to have somebody around who's interesting, who's fun, who's smart. There's no way to replicate Dad. But even if we could, I don't think that anybody is looking for somebody who's exactly like Dad.

Margaret: Well, you know, you never, you never look for somebody that's exactly like another person. Because what you want to do is take all their good qualities, ignore the things that drove you out of your fricking mind, and just have this perfect person and it'll … this new person will have their own things that drive you crazy. So, you know, you just have to deal with it. 

Nora: Again, my mom wants you to know that my dad was great. He was a good husband to her. It’s very important you know that. And their marriage was in a lot of ways a good template for my own marriage. My parents each had their own lives, their own interests. They always fell asleep together, at the same time, after reading in bed beside each other, but they took separate vacations because my dad liked to golf and my mom liked to stay in decrepit one-star hotels she found in the yellow pages and call it an adventure.

Nora: But it doesn’t matter what I want in a dad. Or a father figure. Or my mom’s boyfriend. It matters what my mom wants. So what is Margaret looking for?

Margaret: A combination of the humor and the intelligence and the presence of somebody like Stephen Colbert, and then mix that in with Gabriel Byrne and his tortured, emotional, dark Irish looks, smoldering eyes, you know? And then you want somebody who reads that you can read things and talk about them and have great conversations, and somebody that maybe could cook one or two things. But basically, I thought about it recently, you know how at night you just want someone to talk to about your day? You just, I just want someone to talk to at night, like before you go to bed. Like, “Hey, how was your day? I did this. I did that.” That is probably the hardest time of day for me. I need a pause. I need to get some water. Can we do that for a second?

Nora: Yeah. I want you to stuff those feelings down. [Margaret laughs.] Okay? As soon as you get to a point of emotional resonance, stop, okay? Stop. [laughs]

Margaret: Well why not? Nobody wants to listen to your mother like getting teary-eyed on your podcast.

Nora: I think Marcel could get you a glass of water.

Marcel: Do you want me to grab you some water?

Margaret: Marcel, in that cupboard right there. [Marcel: The right one?] Yes, the right one. There’s some glasses.

Nora: She has one glass. She has one glass only.

Margaret: No, there’s 12 glasses. And then the water right now is set on hot. This thing doesn't work. They don't allow us to have that. [Marcel: Oh, okay]. So pull it down all the way down. There we go. There we go. Where'd you find this guy, Nora? Where did you find Marcel?

Nora: Through a friend of a friend!

Margaret: Through a friend of a friend. Marcel, do you know any elderly men that might like to chat with me sometime?

Marcel: [laughs] I actually know a lot of elderly men because I go to the YMCA and sit in the sauna and talk to elderly dudes. Jerry, Mike. [Margaret: Oh, I love it.] Hal, I think. Uh, Steve.

Nora: Alright, we need Marcel to put some feelers out, too, okay.

Margaret: Oh, there we go.

Nora: And that'll be part two of this episode.

Nora: I'm also going to talk to Austin. I'm going to talk to Meghan about this. And would you be open to like anyone long distance? The only, in my opinion, the only long distance should be somebody who lives in the Phoenix/Scottsdale area.

Margaret: Of course. Of course.

Nora: Or who, like, winters down here. That seems like a good mix. But you travel a lot. But geographically, are we looking for a Minnesotan? An Arizonan? Does it matter? Do they live anywhere, or …

Margaret: Probably on one of Delta's main routes. So I could get some miles. You know, I mean, I don't want … I don't think I need someone to … I would never live with another person, another man, just because it's been, what, eight years? I have developed kind of new routines and, you know, that suit me. And they might not suit another person, you know?

Nora: Like what? What’s so crazy?

Margaret: Well, when you live alone, you know, there's no pressure, or there's no other person to kind of modify the times you do things. Like sometimes I'll stay up really, really late. I'm trying not to do that. I'm trying to, like, get up earlier in the morning, which I only do … like I would say I probably have like three basic days. Like two days I get up really early. Like quarter to six, which is early. 

Nora: Very early. 

Margaret: And I go to the gym and then I have the rest of the day to do whatever I want to do. And then Sunday is … Sunday, I usually meet Belk and some other people at St. Albert's at 9:30 Mass. And then we have coffee afterwards. And that's kind of a really nice routine that's become kind of important to me. And then there's the other days where I just get up at whatever time I want to get up and do whatever. So, yeah, I don't think I would live with another person. Besides, this apartment is too small for that.

Nora: Let the record show it's a two bedroom. Let the record show it's a two bedroom. 

Margaret: Let the record show it's just shy of 1200 finished square feet. 

Nora: Let the record show that my family of two adults and three children, currently, in our house. Our house is only 50% larger than that. And we fit five people and two dogs.

Margaret: You don't need a lot of room. Actually, this is just fine for me. I don't need a basement. I don't need an attic. So location, I don't know. If it's the right person, you know, does location matter? In the beginning? Things can change. Things always change. Right? This probably is not going to be the last place that I live. Although my sister did say to me when she came over to help me hang some art on the walls, she said, “This is the last place I help you hang art on your walls.”

Nora: Have you tried to meet anyone at church? Is there anyone at church?

Margaret: No, there is no one there. There is no one there. And also the whole thing about, well, I have a friend that has used various online dating things, and I mean, I'm not criticizing anyone. It's not for me, in my opinion.

Nora: Like, I don't like the I don't like the online shopping for people aspect of it very much.

Margaret: I agree. And it's like I have looked at … the … it's like a very shallow pool to me. Also, I mean, I know this is sort of old fashioned, but … and I know women now can, like, take the initiative, like, what is it? One site where women take the, make the first move or whatever. And that's fine. And I did when I asked someone if they wanted to make out with me. Okay? I tried that.

Nora: And look where that got ya.

Margaret: Look where that got me! So I think in my mind it's like, oh, you put your picture, pictures and, you know, you try to describe yourself. And all I picture in my mind is somebody walking down the aisle of a grocery store with their cart, like, looking at this cake mix or that cake mix and going, “Oh, that one looks good. I think I'll try that one.” And it's like, I don't want to be a cake mix in a grocery store, you know? You know, I don't know, back way, way, way back when – and you know this too, like when you're in college, you meet people because you and your friends gather in places where other groups of people gather – and that changes as you get older.

Nora: Everything changes as you get older, although I think everything just changes, period. Constantly. Constantly. We have a junior in college, and he told me everyone on campus walks around with their airpods in, staring at their phones, so they’re not even available to have a little meet cute! They’re not even available to just run into somebody and have a cute little exchange and meet somebody that way.

Nora: My mom left me some voice memos after we talked, because there’s always more to say and for me, it always comes after I’m done talking. 

Margaret: One thing about dating or meeting someone after you've been with someone for 50, almost 50 years – we met in 1969. Steve and I met in 1969. It's like when you've been with somebody for that long, you fall into a sort of, I wouldn't say routine, but you have your life together and .. you know, and I won't say that I want someone to sit in bed and read, but that was probably one of the most wonderful times. Like, Steve and I would sit in bed, he'd be reading his book, usually a biography of somebody, and I'd be reading something, and then he'd say, “Listen to this.” And then I'd put my book down and I'd say, “Why don't you just read to me?” You know? And then he'd read and, you know, it was just like … that's what I like to do at night now too, is like, sit in bed and read or write in a journal or whatever. And it's like just that time where you're just kind of winding down and, you know, sharing thoughts about whatever you did that day or, you know, whatever. Yeah. So that's like, yeah, sometimes you just want someone to talk to at night.

Nora: Yeah, that's my favorite thing too. I love the boring parts of being with someone most.

Margaret: They're not boring. They're ordinary. They're the ordinary parts of life, you know? Everything can't be exciting. Anyway. 

Nora: Yeah, if you and Dad taught me anything about marriage, it was that. I remember being like, in my twenties, and Dad was very concerned I would never get married and I would die alone. And he was like, “What do you think, what do you think everything's romantic? Jesus Christ. Most of it's not romantic!”

Margaret: [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Nora: “Ya find someone you like enough, someone to share your life with, and then you share it!” [laughs]

Margaret: Then you share it. Then you just keep going. You keep going. 

Nora: You find work that supports your life, and then you just do it. 

Margaret: And everything else is gravy!

Nora: Everything else is gravy. I KNOW there is no guy who is going to step in and be my dad. That this man is not going to know me at all, that I’ll just be his lady friend’s witty, beautiful, charming, wonderful, one-of-a-kind daughter. But maybe not! Maybe I’ll be the daughter he never had. The daughter who is actually better than the daughter he does have! Maybe!

Nora: I thought that I would spend this episode building up to a call to action where I tell all of you to scour the Earth — or the parts of the Earth that are on Delta’s direct connections to the Minneapolis/Saint Paul airport— scour them for a handsome, interesting older man from his late-60s to mid-70s who is smart and funny and clever and handsome and well-read and who likes to travel and would make out with my mom and not be offended if she sent him a vaguely flirtatious text message!

Nora: And if you have a candidate, I obviously want to know about them. If you ARE a candidate, you have a leg up because you already listen to this podcast! Which my mom does not, so you can tell her all about it on your first date.

Nora: But maybe that’s insane. 

Marcel: That’s definitely insane.

Nora: It is. It’s all insane. And you know why it’s insane? Because my mom has a really great life. She’s not moping around waiting for a guy who can drive at night who’s not afraid to go to second base. She’s out there doing her thing. Right now, she is in Northern California. She took a cross-country road trip with her sister. I had to beg her to share her location with me on Find Friends and call me at night and she only did it two out of the nights she’s been gone! She won't even reply to my phone calls! She is out there doing her thing, and sometimes her thing is going to Europe and not even telling us about it so that her kids find out about her whereabouts on Instagram. And sometimes her thing is that she rips pages out of the New Yorker and sends them to me so we can talk about the story later. It is nuts, because my mom has a good life, and she had to work to make that life possible. And she still has people to share it with. But I also want her to have the gravy, and I want someone to know that she is the gravy. Someone beside her kids. I mean, she is the gravy. She is so funny and interesting. I could literally cry about it. I honestly might right now. And Valentine's Day is always about romantic love. But I really think that what this episode is about is just that I love my mom so much. I love my mom so much. She has done such a good job with all of us kids. And I mean, imagine raising four kids in the ‘80s and the ‘90s – ooohh, dark times. Dark times. My mom did such a good job with all of us. My mom is such a lovely, wonderful person, and I just love her. She's not alone this Valentine's Day. She's with her sister and her brother. And maybe she'll answer my phone call, and maybe she won't. But I know that she's going to send beautiful, creative, wonderful valentines to my children. And even though she does not listen to this show … I love you, Mom.

Margaret: And Marcel kindly got me a glass of water. That was my strategy when Dad was in the hospital, in the ICU. Every time I got choked up, I'm like, “I'm just going to turn around and have a drink of water, and I will not turn into a puddle on the floor.” So, strategy. Tactic. Right? Is that? That's a tactic. 

Nora: That was a tactic. It's not a strategy. Okay. [laughs] You work in advertising long enough. You should know that!

Nora: This has been “Terrible, Thanks for Asking.” I’m Nora McInerny.

Marcel: I’m Marcel Malekebu.

Nora: And this is Feelings & Co. We are a little independent production company making this podcast and working on several others. You can support our work and this show honestly, just by listening to it. This is very, very helpful. By rating and reviewing it, sharing it with a friend or an enemy. And if you want to get … if you want to get ad free episodes or bonus content or just help us make this work possible, you can go to TTFA.org/Premium. You can always call us. We take questions, concerns, compliments, and complaints at 612-568-4441. Or you can email us. Terrible@feelingsand.co. And if you are a man who wants to date my mom, if you know a man who wants to date my mom, I mean you can reach out, but, you know, you could reach out. You could reach out again. It's crazy of me, but you could reach out. 

Marcel: Keep it classy.

Nora: Yeah. Marcel's, Marcel's lookin. Marcel’s looking in the sauna at the YMCA.

Marcel’s: Not too hard, because some of them need help. You got to limit your time in those saunas. One time I had to lodge a complaint. It clearly says you must wear a swimsuit and no active stretching. [laughs]

Nora: I worked at a YMCA in high school. I was a 16-year-old girl and I would get complaints that were like, “There's a … there's a naked man …” I was like, “What do you want me to do? I'm a 16-year-old girl. You want me to go in and regulate on, you know, Bernard, who won’t put his trunks on in the sauna?” [laughs]

Marcel: Bernard is in there for at least 90 minutes a day. Bernard is shaving every square inch. [laughs]

Nora: Bernard's not dating my mom. [laughs]

Margaret: Also one more thing, that Marcel … he's the real deal. We had some nice conversations, and he's into birdwatching now. Bird feeding now. And look, there's a giant woodpecker on the suet feeder. Anyway, I like Marcel a lot. I like him a lot. He's a really, really good guy. Well done, Nora.